{"id":18098,"date":"2023-05-25T16:31:43","date_gmt":"2023-05-25T20:31:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/?page_id=18098"},"modified":"2025-09-03T14:54:51","modified_gmt":"2025-09-03T18:54:51","slug":"the-art-of-being-you","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/the-art-of-being-you\/","title":{"rendered":"The Art of Being You: Ecology, Psychology, and the Art of Being You"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n\n\n<div class=\"is-text wp-block-ncst-buttons\">\n    \n<div class=\"is-style-secondary wp-block-ncst-button\">\n      <a\n        class=\"ncst-block__button-link btn\"\n        href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/magazine\/summer-2023\/\"\n        data-ncst-lightbox=\"false\"\n                      >\n                  <span class=\"text\">FROM THE SUMMER 2023 ISSUE<\/span><span class=\"arrow-indicator\"><svg class=\"wolficon wolficon-arrow-right-bold\" role=\"img\"  aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<use xlink:href=\"#wolficon-arrow-right-bold\">\n\t\t<\/svg><\/span>\n              <\/a>\n    <\/div>\n  \n\n  <\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Growing up on a family farm in Edgefield, South Carolina, Joseph Drew Lanham, \u201cDrew,\u201d to many, knew he wanted to be an ornithologist by the third grade.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As a Black naturalist, writer, and MacArthur Fellow, Lanham chooses to combine science with blunt realities \u2014 particularly when it comes to recognizing that the field of ecology traditionally has not been Black and White. In doing so, he deepens conservation science with personal, historical, and cultural narratives.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Avian ecologist and Coastwatch contributing editor Lauren D. Pharr interviewed Lanham at Simpson Station, part of Clemson University, where he is an Alumni Distinguished Professor of Wildlife Ecology. Together, they reflected on ecology and society.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><strong>Watch &#8220;The Art of Being You&#8221; interview:<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Ecology, Psychology, and the Art of Being You\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/MDvVxdnNB5U?feature=oembed&#038;enablejsapi=1&#038;origin=https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> You are an ornithologist, naturalist, writer, and poet. Your books, <em>The Homeplace<\/em> and <em>Sparrow Envy<\/em>, both of which capture your love affair with nature, continue to be beloved reads for so many. How have you learned to combine conservation science with personal, historical, and cultural narratives of nature? When you get an idea for a story or poem, what are the steps you take to craft it into something that is creative and meaningful?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> You know, Lauren, it\u2019s all of those things. All of those labels of who it is that I am: the ornithologist, the bird watcher, the conservationist, ecologist, poet, writer. All of those things converge really around identity. And you and I as birdwatchers, right, we\u2019re always out identifying things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But you know, the cultural aspects come into identity of who it is that I am as a Black man in the south. And so that\u2019s what I like to think of as the axis of discovery, or even of kind of a scaffolding of how I operate as a professional.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, thinking about my identity, as, well, a Southerner, a southern Black man, an ornithologist, an ecologist, a poet, but then thinking about place, right? So then place blends into that in terms of the South. I mean, I\u2019m all over the place, but the South is home. But then thinking about wild places. So, identity in place, in nature \u2014 birds, wild birds \u2014all of that comes into almost anything that I do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-C9FF8C98-DA02-4F26-A5CB-C3B175B608B5-1.jpg\" data-fullsize=\"1440x1439\" data-zoom=\"true\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1440\" height=\"1439\" src=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-C9FF8C98-DA02-4F26-A5CB-C3B175B608B5-1.jpg\" alt=\"image: Lauren D. Pharr and J. Drew Lanham sit on chairs in front of cameras. \" class=\"wp-image-18193\" srcset=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-C9FF8C98-DA02-4F26-A5CB-C3B175B608B5-1.jpg 1440w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-C9FF8C98-DA02-4F26-A5CB-C3B175B608B5-1-300x300.jpg 300w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-C9FF8C98-DA02-4F26-A5CB-C3B175B608B5-1-1024x1024.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-C9FF8C98-DA02-4F26-A5CB-C3B175B608B5-1-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-C9FF8C98-DA02-4F26-A5CB-C3B175B608B5-1-768x767.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1440px) 100vw, 1440px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">J. Drew Lanham with Lauren D. Pharr. Credit: Lauren D. Pharr.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that\u2019s the science of me, and that\u2019s the art of me, and I think it\u2019s who we all are, right? You know the aspects of what you do. And in climbing ladders, you know, to investigate what\u2019s going on with red-cockaded woodpeckers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You know, there\u2019s an art to being who you are. And there\u2019s a science to it. And so, I like to think about first person as the data we know best. When you go in the field, you know who you\u2019re going to be on that ladder, right? Now, you\u2019re trying to get to know the birds and the place. How do you do that? You do that by the science, by collecting the data. But you also do that on a particular day. You know, it might be not so good a day, everywhere else, but you get into the piney woods. And that smell, that aroma hits you? What is that like?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Yes, the smell, I mean, the sounds, it just, it takes you away really, from everything else that you have on your mind, just being out there in the quiet, but not really quiet. You know, you\u2019re out there, you\u2019re hearing the wind blow, you\u2019re hearing the wiregrass, you know, swaying back and forth. You\u2019re hearing all of these wonderful birds. I mean, you know, being in one of the diverse ecosystems out there, the longleaf pine ecosystem, at that moment you\u2019re just so appreciative of nature as a whole, just experiencing all of these amazing creatures and the plants, the animals, the habitat as a whole. It\u2019s, I mean, it\u2019s remarkable. It really, really is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> And that\u2019s the art of you. And that scene you just described, there\u2019s ecology. There\u2019s psychology. There\u2019s also a spiritual nature to it. And so, all of that goes into what I write. It goes into a poem. You know, we\u2019re out here in this space, and I\u2019ve written lots of poems about shrikes, and grasshopper sparrows and eastern meadowlarks, and flocks of murmuring cowbirds. And maybe birds in that flock that I couldn\u2019t identify. But I could identify with. So that\u2019s, that\u2019s how I tried to bring that to fore.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Talking about poetry, you have a sensational way with words. Your poetry is memorable. In fact, one of my favorite pieces is \u201cNine Rules of the Black Birdwatcher.\u201d You know how to combine humor and intellect to speak on social issues, particularly when it comes to Black individuals and these risks and perceptions of us in the outdoors. How have you learned to become comfortable with pushing the envelope when it comes to talking about these sensitive topics?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-CCC0961C-0DF2-41FF-9BC8-76854B80C4EC-1.jpg\" data-fullsize=\"1200x1200\" data-zoom=\"true\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1200\" height=\"1200\" src=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-CCC0961C-0DF2-41FF-9BC8-76854B80C4EC-1.jpg\" alt=\"image: J. Drew Lanham and Lauren D. Pharr. \" class=\"wp-image-18194\" srcset=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-CCC0961C-0DF2-41FF-9BC8-76854B80C4EC-1.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-CCC0961C-0DF2-41FF-9BC8-76854B80C4EC-1-300x300.jpg 300w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-CCC0961C-0DF2-41FF-9BC8-76854B80C4EC-1-1024x1024.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-CCC0961C-0DF2-41FF-9BC8-76854B80C4EC-1-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-CCC0961C-0DF2-41FF-9BC8-76854B80C4EC-1-768x768.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1200px) 100vw, 1200px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">J. Drew Lanham: \u201cThere&#8217;s ecology. There&#8217;s psychology. There&#8217;s also a spiritual nature to it. And so, all of that goes into what I write.\u201d <br>J. Drew Lanham with Lauren D. Pharr.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> Actually, I got tired of being in the envelope. I got tired of being sort of shut up inside other people\u2019s or society\u2019s expectations, and sealed inside. I see it really is not having much of a choice, if you want to be free.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, I think the poet\u2019s responsibility, part of it, lies in urgency. And there\u2019s nothing more urgent than being Black in America. You know, sitting where we are, for example, the people out here know me, but if I was in some strange place, a Black man alongside the road with binoculars just out looking, people might not perceive me the same way. And so I think people need to understand that as we are watching, sometimes we\u2019re being watched, you know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I equate it to almost like having the ice spots of like a ferruginous pygmy owl or something like that on the back of our heads, and we have to be consciously and constantly conscious of where we are, and how we\u2019re being perceived. So, poetry gives me an opportunity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cThe Nine Rules for the Black Birdwatcher\u201d gave me an opportunity to use satire to get a point across, because ultimately, you know, no one wants to be beat across the head with a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">point as cogent as the point may be. And so it\u2019s also important to give a little bit of medicine with the sugar.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You know, in that way, I want people to maybe think about laughing and then they laugh \u2014 then think about why they had to think about why they laugh.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For example, one of my favorite lines from that poem, but this is really, really real: \u201cNever wear a hoodie, ever.\u201d That came from Trayvon Martin, and that was so real and so fresh when I wrote that it was not far removed from that murder. And I was thinking about being out as a birder, and then how I am perceived.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so does that mean I need to wear a Tilley hat and a khaki vest and big pocket cargo pants? I hope not, because I don\u2019t want to do that. I want to be who I am.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it\u2019s also something that we have to think about, that you have to think about when you\u2019re out. I mean, things that other people take for granted, you can\u2019t. We can\u2019t.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> So, Drew, walk me through the exact moment when you found out that you were a MacArthur Fellow. How did it feel to be named alongside so many groundbreaking, deserving individuals, like Robin Wall Kimmerer, renowned author of <em>Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants<\/em>?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> Unbelievable. There was just silence. And, then I lost it. There was some sort of weird, you know, guttural, primal scream, and then tears and still disbelief. It\u2019s validation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You know, because we\u2019re always evaluating ourselves. You know, I talked about first person being the data that we know best, but we\u2019re always evaluating ourselves. And unfortunately, imposter syndrome is part of what we have to deal with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Most definitely.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full alignnone\"><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-lanham_2022_hi-res-download_6-2-scaled-1.jpg\" data-fullsize=\"2560x1707\" data-zoom=\"true\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-lanham_2022_hi-res-download_6-2-scaled-1.jpg\" alt=\"image: J. Drew Lanham poses for a photo with his binoculars.\" class=\"wp-image-18196\" srcset=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-lanham_2022_hi-res-download_6-2-scaled-1.jpg 2560w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-lanham_2022_hi-res-download_6-2-scaled-1-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-lanham_2022_hi-res-download_6-2-scaled-1-1024x683.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-lanham_2022_hi-res-download_6-2-scaled-1-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-lanham_2022_hi-res-download_6-2-scaled-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-lanham_2022_hi-res-download_6-2-scaled-1-2048x1366.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">J. Drew Lanham: \u201cI got tired of being in the envelope. I got tired of being sort of shut up inside other people&#8217;s or society&#8217;s expectations, and sealed inside.\u201d credit: \u00a9 John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, used with permission.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> And for BIPOC [Black, Indigenous, People of Color], impostor syndrome is unfortunately part of the landscape, because society is constantly, again, putting you in an envelope and telling you where you belong, or what you should do. And what you should not do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Somebody probably says, \u201cLauren, Black women don\u2019t climb trees, looking for woodpeckers. Why would you do that?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Or people in just disbelief. \u201cWow. Here\u2019s a Black woman out here, climbing trees and chasing woodpeckers.\u201d That\u2019s the way I like to describe it, whenever I talk about my work. And then people are like, \u201cWhat? What does that look like?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> And then you say, \u201cLet me show you.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> You know, when you get an award or not \u2014 even when someone says, \u201cGood work,\u201d and they recognize what you\u2019re doing is valuable \u2014 that\u2019s a tailwind. And that tailwind, that thermal lifts you into this position of going forward or maybe soaring and not having to flap as hard. You know, that\u2019s a critical thing. So that\u2019s what the MacArthur has done to this point.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But still, there are moments of disbelief. And I\u2019m sort of like, \u201cso what are the strings here?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> So, it\u2019s sort of like a personal Emancipation Proclamation. And, you know, when people say, \u201cWell, you\u2019re doing what?\u201d And I haven\u2019t said this, but I almost feel like saying, \u201cWell, I\u2019m being a MacArthur Fellow is what I\u2019m doing.\u201d And, honestly, that sounds really pretty arrogant. But for a few people, it\u2019s almost like you need to say that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so when that time comes, and as you become Dr. Pharr, there\u2019ll be a time where you\u2019re like, \u201cyou know what, I don\u2019t need that \u2019doctor.\u2019 To be called that.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-1-1.png\" data-fullsize=\"880x1368\" data-zoom=\"true\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"880\" height=\"1368\" src=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-1-1.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18192\" srcset=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-1-1.png 880w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-1-1-193x300.png 193w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-1-1-659x1024.png 659w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-1-1-768x1194.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 880px) 100vw, 880px\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But you know what? Hang on to it. You\u2019ve earned it. And it\u2019s validation of your work and what you have done, because there will be people who try to take that away from you. Make sure that you hold on to what you have worked for. And don\u2019t let anybody take it from you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that MacArthur \u2014 one of the things they tell you beautifully, because all of us are sitting there in disbelief on the call. We\u2019re like, \u201cI didn\u2019t believe it, I still don\u2019t believe it.\u201d And they say, \u201cWell, when the check comes, you\u2019ll believe it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They said, \u201cWe don\u2019t make mistakes,\u201d and they said, \u201cThe expectation is that you just continue to do you.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You know how powerful it is for somebody to say, \u201cDo you.\u201d Do you. So that\u2019s the long form of my reaction. But it\u2019s still disbelief. It\u2019s gratitude. And it\u2019s, it\u2019s an opportunity to literally, once in a lifetime, to leverage good into good, hopefully.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> For me, I remember the exact day, the exact moment when I decided that I wanted to be a wildlife biologist. And as I was looking into grad schools, I stumbled across your profile on Clemson University\u2019s faculty page. How does it feel to be a mentor, to be an advisor? To know that when you win, we in the BIPOC community win? How does that feel? What made you, being a mentor to students and eventually earning you the title of Alumni Distinguished Professor of Wildlife Ecology?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> Wow. You know, it\u2019s been humbling in ways, Lauren, because impact is something, sometimes, that\u2019s not felt, except on sort of the outer edge of the ripple. In the classroom on any given day, you may not realize it, or with students, you may not realize it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My first Black student, and a wonderful professional now, Dr. Kenan Adams, taught me a lot. He came to me for his master\u2019s degree. And then he stayed on for his PhD.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And his masters was sort of, you know, sort of easy, sort of standard, but we began to develop a relationship. And then his<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-2-1.png\" data-fullsize=\"882x1398\" data-zoom=\"true\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"882\" height=\"1398\" src=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-2-1.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18197\" srcset=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-2-1.png 882w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-2-1-189x300.png 189w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-2-1-646x1024.png 646w, https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-2-1-768x1217.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 882px) 100vw, 882px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">J. Drew Lanham: \u201cI want my work to inspire. I want it to inspire head. I want it to inspire heart. And I want it to inspire some action for a better future.\u201d<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">PhD was a little more difficult, and, you know, we were both maturing and evolving as people. But one of the things that, that I think helps me as<br>a mentor is to be open to learning from students or anybody else, so, to understand that other people\u2019s life experiences and their expectations aren\u2019t necessarily my life experiences and my expectations.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I always want to keep that in mind with everyone. But when it comes to BIPOC, to us and how we relate in this profession, there are still so few of us that I think there has to be a certain intensive attention paid to that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You\u2019re very kind saying, when I win, we all win. But, I feel like my career has been in so many ways buoyed and supported and made by those people who you may co-author a paper with, but they were out there in the field. You know, Kenan was down there in Bainbridge, Georgia. Marla Hamilton, my first black female student \u2014 Marla was out at McIntyre Air Station doing those bird surveys. What they brought to the table was giving me the opportunity to somehow be a part of their lives.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then seeing them now as professionals, doing wonderful work and impacting others in their own way, then you begin to feel the effects of those outer ripples. That, to me, has been some of the great joy, seeing them do what they do, seeing you doing what you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I mean, to have a voice now means that it\u2019s important that you communicate with people where they are, and I know that you\u2019re doing that. To be able to take an Instagram post or a Facebook post or a tweet, and to take a tweet, and use it to translate the tweets that you\u2019re hearing in the field \u2014 that\u2019s critical.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, I\u2019m learning from you. And so that again is sort of what happens to those ripples; they eventually go out, and they dampen against something. But what I think the science will tell you is that there\u2019s a reverb. And so if you listen closely and pay attention, you can feel that reverb. Even sitting here today, it\u2019s a reverb feeling. And I\u2019m grateful for that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> I\u2019d like to end today with a quote from you: \u201cI want my work to inspire. I want it to inspire head. I want it to inspire heart. And I want it to inspire some action for a better future.\u201d There is no doubt that your work has inspired and continues to inspire so many people. I\u2019m curious, what is next for you? Any new or upcoming projects or adventures? Is there anything that you wish to do that you haven\u2019t done yet that you hope to do in the future?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> So much, but then just to have time to sit and watch. Right? This place is sort of special to me, and being able to share that with you is important. But, you know, to continue to write with the same depth and urgency and to have somebody notice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, thank you for noticing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Thank you for sharing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><strong>more<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/jdlanham.wixsite.com\/blackbirder\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">J. Drew Lanham<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macfound.org\/fellows\/class-of-2022\/joseph-drew-lanham#searchresults\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">J. Drew Lanham at the MacArthur Foundation<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/orionmagazine.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/NineRules.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u201cNine Rules for the Black Birdwatcher\u201d<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/jdlanham.wixsite.com\/blackbirder\/writing\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>The Home Place<\/em> and <em>Sparrow Envy<\/em><\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/current-issue\/spring-2022\/wings-of-change\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Lauren D. Pharr\u2019s \u201cWings of Change\u201d<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><em>LAUREN D. PHARR is an award-winning science communicator with North Carolina Sea Grant, contributing editor for Coastwatch, Ph.D. student at NC State University, and 2021-2022 Global Change Fellow with the Southeast Climate Adaptation Science Center. She also recently co-founded Field Inclusive, a nonprofit designed to amplify and support marginalized and historically excluded biologists and researchers: fieldinclusive.org.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ncst-related-stories\">\n    <h2 class=\"related-stories__label\">Related<\/h2>\n    <ul class=\"ncst-component__related-stories-container\">\n      \n<li class=\"ncst-component__bold-link-container wp-block-ncst-bold-link\">\n      <a \n      href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/magazine\/summer-2023\/\"\n      class=\"ncst-component__bold-link text-link\"\n                >\n    <span class=\"text\">Summer 2023 Issue<\/span><span class=\"arrow-indicator\"><svg class=\"wolficon wolficon-arrow-right-bold\" role=\"img\"  aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<use xlink:href=\"#wolficon-arrow-right-bold\">\n\t\t<\/svg><\/span>\n    <\/a>\n      <\/li>\n  \n\n    <\/ul>\n  <\/div>\n","protected":false,"raw":"<!-- wp:ncst\/dynamic-header {\"block\":\"ncst\/default-immersive-post-header\"} -->\n<!-- wp:ncst\/default-immersive-post-header {\"backgroundColor\":\"custombg_one\",\"displayCategoryID\":592,\"subtitle\":\"An Interview with Dr. J. Drew Lanham, MacArthur Fellow\"} \/-->\n<!-- \/wp:ncst\/dynamic-header -->\n\n<!-- wp:ncst\/buttons -->\n<!-- wp:ncst\/button {\"url\":\"https%3A%2F%2Fncseagrant.ncsu.edu%2Fcoastwatch%2Fmagazine%2Fsummer-2023%2F\",\"text\":\"FROM THE SUMMER 2023 ISSUE\",\"className\":\"is-style-secondary\"} \/-->\n<!-- \/wp:ncst\/buttons -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>Growing up on a family farm in Edgefield, South Carolina, Joseph Drew Lanham, \u201cDrew,\u201d to many, knew he wanted to be an ornithologist by the third grade.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>As a Black naturalist, writer, and MacArthur Fellow, Lanham chooses to combine science with blunt realities \u2014 particularly when it comes to recognizing that the field of ecology traditionally has not been Black and White. In doing so, he deepens conservation science with personal, historical, and cultural narratives.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>Avian ecologist and Coastwatch contributing editor Lauren D. Pharr interviewed Lanham at Simpson Station, part of Clemson University, where he is an Alumni Distinguished Professor of Wildlife Ecology. Together, they reflected on ecology and society.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><em><strong>Watch \"The Art of Being You\" interview:<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:embed {\"url\":\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/MDvVxdnNB5U\",\"type\":\"video\",\"providerNameSlug\":\"youtube\",\"responsive\":true,\"className\":\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"} -->\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps:\/\/youtu.be\/MDvVxdnNB5U\n<\/div><\/figure>\n<!-- \/wp:embed -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> You are an ornithologist, naturalist, writer, and poet. Your books, <em>The Homeplace<\/em> and <em>Sparrow Envy<\/em>, both of which capture your love affair with nature, continue to be beloved reads for so many. How have you learned to combine conservation science with personal, historical, and cultural narratives of nature? When you get an idea for a story or poem, what are the steps you take to craft it into something that is creative and meaningful?<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> You know, Lauren, it\u2019s all of those things. All of those labels of who it is that I am: the ornithologist, the bird watcher, the conservationist, ecologist, poet, writer. All of those things converge really around identity. And you and I as birdwatchers, right, we\u2019re always out identifying things.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>But you know, the cultural aspects come into identity of who it is that I am as a Black man in the south. And so that\u2019s what I like to think of as the axis of discovery, or even of kind of a scaffolding of how I operate as a professional.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>So, thinking about my identity, as, well, a Southerner, a southern Black man, an ornithologist, an ecologist, a poet, but then thinking about place, right? So then place blends into that in terms of the South. I mean, I\u2019m all over the place, but the South is home. But then thinking about wild places. So, identity in place, in nature \u2014 birds, wild birds \u2014all of that comes into almost anything that I do.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:image {\"id\":18193,\"sizeSlug\":\"full\"} -->\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-C9FF8C98-DA02-4F26-A5CB-C3B175B608B5-1.jpg\"><img src=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-C9FF8C98-DA02-4F26-A5CB-C3B175B608B5-1.jpg\" alt=\"image: Lauren D. Pharr and J. Drew Lanham sit on chairs in front of cameras. \" class=\"wp-image-18193\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">J. Drew Lanham with Lauren D. Pharr. Credit: Lauren D. Pharr.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<!-- \/wp:image -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>And that\u2019s the science of me, and that\u2019s the art of me, and I think it\u2019s who we all are, right? You know the aspects of what you do. And in climbing ladders, you know, to investigate what\u2019s going on with red-cockaded woodpeckers.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>You know, there\u2019s an art to being who you are. And there\u2019s a science to it. And so, I like to think about first person as the data we know best. When you go in the field, you know who you\u2019re going to be on that ladder, right? Now, you\u2019re trying to get to know the birds and the place. How do you do that? You do that by the science, by collecting the data. But you also do that on a particular day. You know, it might be not so good a day, everywhere else, but you get into the piney woods. And that smell, that aroma hits you? What is that like?<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Yes, the smell, I mean, the sounds, it just, it takes you away really, from everything else that you have on your mind, just being out there in the quiet, but not really quiet. You know, you\u2019re out there, you\u2019re hearing the wind blow, you\u2019re hearing the wiregrass, you know, swaying back and forth. You\u2019re hearing all of these wonderful birds. I mean, you know, being in one of the diverse ecosystems out there, the longleaf pine ecosystem, at that moment you\u2019re just so appreciative of nature as a whole, just experiencing all of these amazing creatures and the plants, the animals, the habitat as a whole. It\u2019s, I mean, it\u2019s remarkable. It really, really is.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> And that\u2019s the art of you. And that scene you just described, there\u2019s ecology. There\u2019s psychology. There\u2019s also a spiritual nature to it. And so, all of that goes into what I write. It goes into a poem. You know, we\u2019re out here in this space, and I\u2019ve written lots of poems about shrikes, and grasshopper sparrows and eastern meadowlarks, and flocks of murmuring cowbirds. And maybe birds in that flock that I couldn\u2019t identify. But I could identify with. So that\u2019s, that\u2019s how I tried to bring that to fore.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Talking about poetry, you have a sensational way with words. Your poetry is memorable. In fact, one of my favorite pieces is \u201cNine Rules of the Black Birdwatcher.\u201d You know how to combine humor and intellect to speak on social issues, particularly when it comes to Black individuals and these risks and perceptions of us in the outdoors. How have you learned to become comfortable with pushing the envelope when it comes to talking about these sensitive topics?<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:image {\"id\":18194,\"sizeSlug\":\"full\"} -->\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-CCC0961C-0DF2-41FF-9BC8-76854B80C4EC-1.jpg\"><img src=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-CCC0961C-0DF2-41FF-9BC8-76854B80C4EC-1.jpg\" alt=\"image: J. Drew Lanham and Lauren D. Pharr. \" class=\"wp-image-18194\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">J. Drew Lanham: \u201cThere's ecology. There's psychology. There's also a spiritual nature to it. And so, all of that goes into what I write.\u201d <br>J. Drew Lanham with Lauren D. Pharr.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<!-- \/wp:image -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> Actually, I got tired of being in the envelope. I got tired of being sort of shut up inside other people\u2019s or society\u2019s expectations, and sealed inside. I see it really is not having much of a choice, if you want to be free.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>So, I think the poet\u2019s responsibility, part of it, lies in urgency. And there\u2019s nothing more urgent than being Black in America. You know, sitting where we are, for example, the people out here know me, but if I was in some strange place, a Black man alongside the road with binoculars just out looking, people might not perceive me the same way. And so I think people need to understand that as we are watching, sometimes we\u2019re being watched, you know.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>I equate it to almost like having the ice spots of like a ferruginous pygmy owl or something like that on the back of our heads, and we have to be consciously and constantly conscious of where we are, and how we\u2019re being perceived. So, poetry gives me an opportunity.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>\u201cThe Nine Rules for the Black Birdwatcher\u201d gave me an opportunity to use satire to get a point across, because ultimately, you know, no one wants to be beat across the head with a<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>point as cogent as the point may be. And so it\u2019s also important to give a little bit of medicine with the sugar.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>You know, in that way, I want people to maybe think about laughing and then they laugh \u2014 then think about why they had to think about why they laugh.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>For example, one of my favorite lines from that poem, but this is really, really real: \u201cNever wear a hoodie, ever.\u201d That came from Trayvon Martin, and that was so real and so fresh when I wrote that it was not far removed from that murder. And I was thinking about being out as a birder, and then how I am perceived.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>And so does that mean I need to wear a Tilley hat and a khaki vest and big pocket cargo pants? I hope not, because I don\u2019t want to do that. I want to be who I am.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>But it\u2019s also something that we have to think about, that you have to think about when you\u2019re out. I mean, things that other people take for granted, you can\u2019t. We can\u2019t.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> So, Drew, walk me through the exact moment when you found out that you were a MacArthur Fellow. How did it feel to be named alongside so many groundbreaking, deserving individuals, like Robin Wall Kimmerer, renowned author of <em>Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants<\/em>?<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> Unbelievable. There was just silence. And, then I lost it. There was some sort of weird, you know, guttural, primal scream, and then tears and still disbelief. It\u2019s validation.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>You know, because we\u2019re always evaluating ourselves. You know, I talked about first person being the data that we know best, but we\u2019re always evaluating ourselves. And unfortunately, imposter syndrome is part of what we have to deal with.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Most definitely.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:image {\"id\":18196,\"sizeSlug\":\"full\",\"className\":\"alignnone\"} -->\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full alignnone\"><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-lanham_2022_hi-res-download_6-2-scaled-1.jpg\"><img src=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-lanham_2022_hi-res-download_6-2-scaled-1.jpg\" alt=\"image: J. Drew Lanham poses for a photo with his binoculars.\" class=\"wp-image-18196\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">J. Drew Lanham: \u201cI got tired of being in the envelope. I got tired of being sort of shut up inside other people's or society's expectations, and sealed inside.\u201d credit: \u00a9 John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, used with permission.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<!-- \/wp:image -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> And for BIPOC [Black, Indigenous, People of Color], impostor syndrome is unfortunately part of the landscape, because society is constantly, again, putting you in an envelope and telling you where you belong, or what you should do. And what you should not do.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>Somebody probably says, \u201cLauren, Black women don\u2019t climb trees, looking for woodpeckers. Why would you do that?\u201d<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Or people in just disbelief. \u201cWow. Here\u2019s a Black woman out here, climbing trees and chasing woodpeckers.\u201d That\u2019s the way I like to describe it, whenever I talk about my work. And then people are like, \u201cWhat? What does that look like?\u201d<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> And then you say, \u201cLet me show you.\u201d<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> You know, when you get an award or not \u2014 even when someone says, \u201cGood work,\u201d and they recognize what you\u2019re doing is valuable \u2014 that\u2019s a tailwind. And that tailwind, that thermal lifts you into this position of going forward or maybe soaring and not having to flap as hard. You know, that\u2019s a critical thing. So that\u2019s what the MacArthur has done to this point.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>But still, there are moments of disbelief. And I\u2019m sort of like, \u201cso what are the strings here?\u201d<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> So, it\u2019s sort of like a personal Emancipation Proclamation. And, you know, when people say, \u201cWell, you\u2019re doing what?\u201d And I haven\u2019t said this, but I almost feel like saying, \u201cWell, I\u2019m being a MacArthur Fellow is what I\u2019m doing.\u201d And, honestly, that sounds really pretty arrogant. But for a few people, it\u2019s almost like you need to say that.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>And so when that time comes, and as you become Dr. Pharr, there\u2019ll be a time where you\u2019re like, \u201cyou know what, I don\u2019t need that \u2019doctor.\u2019 To be called that.\u201d<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:image {\"id\":18192,\"sizeSlug\":\"full\",\"linkDestination\":\"custom\",\"className\":\"alignright\"} -->\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-1-1.png\"><img src=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-1-1.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18192\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n<!-- \/wp:image -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>But you know what? Hang on to it. You\u2019ve earned it. And it\u2019s validation of your work and what you have done, because there will be people who try to take that away from you. Make sure that you hold on to what you have worked for. And don\u2019t let anybody take it from you.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>And that MacArthur \u2014 one of the things they tell you beautifully, because all of us are sitting there in disbelief on the call. We\u2019re like, \u201cI didn\u2019t believe it, I still don\u2019t believe it.\u201d And they say, \u201cWell, when the check comes, you\u2019ll believe it.\u201d<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>They said, \u201cWe don\u2019t make mistakes,\u201d and they said, \u201cThe expectation is that you just continue to do you.\u201d<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>You know how powerful it is for somebody to say, \u201cDo you.\u201d Do you. So that\u2019s the long form of my reaction. But it\u2019s still disbelief. It\u2019s gratitude. And it\u2019s, it\u2019s an opportunity to literally, once in a lifetime, to leverage good into good, hopefully.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> For me, I remember the exact day, the exact moment when I decided that I wanted to be a wildlife biologist. And as I was looking into grad schools, I stumbled across your profile on Clemson University\u2019s faculty page. How does it feel to be a mentor, to be an advisor? To know that when you win, we in the BIPOC community win? How does that feel? What made you, being a mentor to students and eventually earning you the title of Alumni Distinguished Professor of Wildlife Ecology?<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> Wow. You know, it\u2019s been humbling in ways, Lauren, because impact is something, sometimes, that\u2019s not felt, except on sort of the outer edge of the ripple. In the classroom on any given day, you may not realize it, or with students, you may not realize it.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>My first Black student, and a wonderful professional now, Dr. Kenan Adams, taught me a lot. He came to me for his master\u2019s degree. And then he stayed on for his PhD.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>And his masters was sort of, you know, sort of easy, sort of standard, but we began to develop a relationship. And then his<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:image {\"id\":18197,\"sizeSlug\":\"full\",\"className\":\"alignright\"} -->\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-2-1.png\"><img src=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/06\/ECOLOGY-PSYCHOLOGY-AND-THE-ART-.-dustjacket-2-1.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18197\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">J. Drew Lanham: \u201cI want my work to inspire. I want it to inspire head. I want it to inspire heart. And I want it to inspire some action for a better future.\u201d<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<!-- \/wp:image -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>PhD was a little more difficult, and, you know, we were both maturing and evolving as people. But one of the things that, that I think helps me as<br>a mentor is to be open to learning from students or anybody else, so, to understand that other people\u2019s life experiences and their expectations aren\u2019t necessarily my life experiences and my expectations.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>I always want to keep that in mind with everyone. But when it comes to BIPOC, to us and how we relate in this profession, there are still so few of us that I think there has to be a certain intensive attention paid to that.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>You\u2019re very kind saying, when I win, we all win. But, I feel like my career has been in so many ways buoyed and supported and made by those people who you may co-author a paper with, but they were out there in the field. You know, Kenan was down there in Bainbridge, Georgia. Marla Hamilton, my first black female student \u2014 Marla was out at McIntyre Air Station doing those bird surveys. What they brought to the table was giving me the opportunity to somehow be a part of their lives.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>And then seeing them now as professionals, doing wonderful work and impacting others in their own way, then you begin to feel the effects of those outer ripples. That, to me, has been some of the great joy, seeing them do what they do, seeing you doing what you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>I mean, to have a voice now means that it\u2019s important that you communicate with people where they are, and I know that you\u2019re doing that. To be able to take an Instagram post or a Facebook post or a tweet, and to take a tweet, and use it to translate the tweets that you\u2019re hearing in the field \u2014 that\u2019s critical.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>So, I\u2019m learning from you. And so that again is sort of what happens to those ripples; they eventually go out, and they dampen against something. But what I think the science will tell you is that there\u2019s a reverb. And so if you listen closely and pay attention, you can feel that reverb. Even sitting here today, it\u2019s a reverb feeling. And I\u2019m grateful for that.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> I\u2019d like to end today with a quote from you: \u201cI want my work to inspire. I want it to inspire head. I want it to inspire heart. And I want it to inspire some action for a better future.\u201d There is no doubt that your work has inspired and continues to inspire so many people. I\u2019m curious, what is next for you? Any new or upcoming projects or adventures? Is there anything that you wish to do that you haven\u2019t done yet that you hope to do in the future?<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>J. Drew Lanham:<\/strong> So much, but then just to have time to sit and watch. Right? This place is sort of special to me, and being able to share that with you is important. But, you know, to continue to write with the same depth and urgency and to have somebody notice.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>So, thank you for noticing.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong>Lauren D. Pharr:<\/strong> Thank you for sharing.<\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><em><strong>more<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:list -->\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/jdlanham.wixsite.com\/blackbirder\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">J. Drew Lanham<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<!-- \/wp:list-item -->\n\n<!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macfound.org\/fellows\/class-of-2022\/joseph-drew-lanham#searchresults\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">J. Drew Lanham at the MacArthur Foundation<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<!-- \/wp:list-item -->\n\n<!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/orionmagazine.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/NineRules.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u201cNine Rules for the Black Birdwatcher\u201d<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<!-- \/wp:list-item -->\n\n<!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/jdlanham.wixsite.com\/blackbirder\/writing\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>The Home Place<\/em> and <em>Sparrow Envy<\/em><\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<!-- \/wp:list-item -->\n\n<!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/current-issue\/spring-2022\/wings-of-change\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Lauren D. Pharr\u2019s \u201cWings of Change\u201d<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<!-- \/wp:list-item --><\/ul>\n<!-- \/wp:list -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong><em>LAUREN D. PHARR is an award-winning science communicator with North Carolina Sea Grant, contributing editor for Coastwatch, Ph.D. student at NC State University, and 2021-2022 Global Change Fellow with the Southeast Climate Adaptation Science Center. She also recently co-founded Field Inclusive, a nonprofit designed to amplify and support marginalized and historically excluded biologists and researchers: fieldinclusive.org.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<!-- \/wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:ncst\/related-stories -->\n<!-- wp:ncst\/bold-link {\"text\":\"Summer 2023 Issue\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/ncseagrant.ncsu.edu\/coastwatch\/magazine\/summer-2023\/\",\"isList\":true} \/-->\n<!-- \/wp:ncst\/related-stories -->"},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Growing up on a family farm in Edgefield, South Carolina, Joseph Drew Lanham, \u201cDrew,\u201d to many, knew he wanted to be an ornithologist by the third grade. As a Black naturalist, writer, and MacArthur Fellow, Lanham chooses to combine science with blunt realities&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":63,"featured_media":18195,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"views\/single-immersive.blade.php","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"source":"","ncst_custom_author":"Laurent D. Pharr","ncst_show_custom_author":true,"ncst_dynamicHeaderBlockName":"ncst\/default-immersive-post-header","ncst_dynamicHeaderData":"{\"backgroundColor\":\"custombg_one\",\"displayCategoryID\":592,\"showAuthor\":true,\"showDate\":true,\"showFeaturedVideo\":false,\"subtitle\":\"An Interview with Dr. J. 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